Log in

No account? Create an account
07 January 2008 @ 06:00 pm
BMW R1200S Soundtrack  
Well friends,

I'm looking for some decent (slip-on) soundtrack for my R1200S (power increase is meaningless without the front  pipe  assembly).  Is  HPE  any good? I'm not a big fan of Italian made stuff (quality) Has anyone tried other brands?


mandaloreanmandalorean on January 8th, 2008 09:13 am (UTC)
I went for the stainless steel HPE silencer because it looked the most unique. Quality-wise it's excellent, very neat welding and was very easy to fit, the carbon trim just finished it off.
They sound great and come with two types of removable baffle, so you can have them straight through, sports baffle or homologated baffle. I've kept the sports baffles in so their not too loud, it's still fruity enough though. I am contemplating the HPE race downpipes now as well to get a bit more power, and possibly a bellypan to get that HP2 Sport feel.
I was warned away from Bos as I heard many silencers have been returned due to the carbon peeling away when they get hot. I liked the Akrapovic but I didn't like their price.
peter_fotiadis on January 8th, 2008 01:37 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the quick reply. I've seen the HPE graphs (full stuff) and indeed they appear quite tempting (middle range). Local BMW Dealer claims that Motronic requires remapping when not OEM/Akrapovic is on duty (but that's "normal" since BMW supports officially Akrapovic).

Other than that, the R12S is indeed the best real-life real-roads bike available, bar none (for none read anything from 998 to Mille and SP2 and this and that).

I'm not sure that I like the HP2 Sport added complexity (quick shifter etc etc)
mandaloreanmandalorean on January 8th, 2008 02:04 pm (UTC)
I have to be honest, if I had the money, I think I would try to buy a HP2 Sport. I think it looks amazing! However, as I bought my R12S with the sports pack I pretty much have the HP2's geometry, wheels size, brakes and suspension. Its only lacking a bit on power in comparison in regards to 'real world' biking. You are right though, the HP2S does have a lot of complex kit bolted to it.

I was thinking of the Ilmberger (http://www.ilmberger-carbon.de/DSC4413a.jpg) belly pan to get the HP2S look but it look like it only fits with OE downpipes.

Also, my research has indicated to me that the R12S shouldn't need remapping as it has a learning ECU and the Oxygen sensors are still present in the free flowing de-cat down pipes and should adjust the fuelling accordingly after a few hundred miles. However I am still doing research on that.
peter_fotiadis on January 8th, 2008 02:29 pm (UTC)
Well, I think that HP2 Sport is dangerously close to some Jap made mentality (complexity for complexity's shake - I mean, angry looks apart, do you really need that extra power on that price?). The genius thing with the R12S is that it does what it does and still manages to be as "primitive" as possible these days - so to speak (by Jap R1/GSXR/Blade/ZX10 standards - no thanks).

That belly pan looks "OK" (the void areas are odd - or what?). Actually I haven't found some decent looking stuff so far (my bike being black could easily "adjust" to any carbon add-on).

Learning ECU? Hmmm... fuel quality apart, too good to be true (but again you never know...I need to search that a bit, but where could we gather such info?).
mandaloreanmandalorean on January 8th, 2008 03:42 pm (UTC)
Spoke to an independent BMW Senior Technician about it and also a Buell technical as the newer Buells apparently use the same kind of thinking. It's why the bikes have knock sensors and O2 sensors. The ECU knows it should keep the air/fuel mix to about 14 parts to 1 (I forget exact numbers at the moment.) and so knowing throttle position, speed, oxygen amount and fuel octane it can work out how much fuel the injectors should be injecting into the throttle body.
If it senses too much oxygen in the exhaust gasses as you would with a non-catalytic converter race system it will increase the amount of fuel injected.
Apparently it takes about 100 miles of normal riding for the bike to adjust itself properly. However obviously there would be a decrease in fuel economy.
I'll try and find some info for you.....
peter_fotiadis on January 8th, 2008 04:38 pm (UTC)
Thanks. I'm waiting for more insight stuff.

PS: since the lamda sensor sits before the kat (right pipe), how ECU could "adjust" to the non kat HPE "race reality"? Or can measure back pressure? Or there's another sensor in the kat? Too dark to check the real thing right now.
mandaloreanmandalorean on January 8th, 2008 10:01 pm (UTC)
You're right. There's no sensor in, or after, the cat. However there should be a sensor on both sides of the down pipes just below and in front of the cylinder heads. I believe it works on gas flow and back pressure. With the cat removed the exhaust gas can leave the cylinders more quickly as there is less restriction. Because of this the bike tries to breath in more amounts of air too. Which is why it also a good idea to fit a K&N air filter or other hi flow air filter intake of air can match the exhaust.

The sensors are before the cat so they can sense what each cylinder mix is before some of the gasses are catelysed. There for the individual injectors on each throttle body can be adjusted independantly. Idealy when an engine is dyno tuned the exhaust gasses should be sampled before the cat as the cat can cause innacurate results.

Basically, no cat = more air in mixture (lean mix) 'Therefor' more fuel required to reach correct mix ratio. O2 sensor detects lean mix exhaust gasses and the ECU adjusts the injectors accordingly.
peter_fotiadis on January 9th, 2008 03:26 pm (UTC)
Erm...another "green" thought > I mean..erm..we ride BMW stuff, somehow we are the "elite" (so to speak) and we should pass the right message to the rest of bikers as well (Earth matters and the likes). Removing the kat ...well..not a good thing for that poor Earth (I know that's maybe too late, but we should do our best anyway).

I'm not so sure about the "strict" Law as well (forget MOT, I mean what happens in a given police check?)
mandaloreanmandalorean on January 9th, 2008 04:23 pm (UTC)
True, although there have been experiments showing that a good race set up can release less hydro carbons than a catalytic converter. I think it depends on how pure the fuel is as well.
I guess it's a personal decision.
peter_fotiadis on January 8th, 2008 06:27 pm (UTC)
Light bulb > well, dare I suggest to wait a bit (belly pan).I mean when the HP2S hype arrives to the masses..erm..expect a lot of third party add-on makers to offer "look-alike" race/angry stuff
mandaloreanmandalorean on January 8th, 2008 10:04 pm (UTC)
I expect you will be right there.
The problem that I am having is if I get the Ilmberger belly ban I cant fit the HPE downpipes and vice versa.
If I fit the HPE downpipes and get a HP2S belly ban, that should work.
I'd like the have the belly pan painted silver to match the rest of the body work too :)
peter_fotiadis on January 9th, 2008 03:18 pm (UTC)
I insist ...(1) wait a bit for others to offer some similar hot stuff, (2) ask the official price - spare part - of that HP2S belly (3) side "slats" (voids) on the Ilmberger thing not the best design solution around (I'm a designer - actually an Architect).

AFAIK no belly pan (carbon excluded obviously)is delivered painted.

I'm looking for some decent injector-mess (what a mess!!) "covers" as well (see the official BMW site - forget the ugly/cheapo perforated metal protector stuff available). A lot of cats find the exposed wires quite tempting...

All in all, the danger here is to overcook a terribly elegant bike. (I've just saw an R1 painted as Valentino's M1- kitsch to the max in my humble opinion)
peter_fotiadis on January 9th, 2008 04:07 pm (UTC)

PS: Speaking about "design" ...see these pics (CM Wraith 3d modeled for fan just ...because, CAD apps : CATIA and Microstation). I can mail you the 3dPDF of that Thing (complete bike).

(Deleted comment)
peter_fotiadis on January 9th, 2008 05:38 pm (UTC)
Hmmm...I had a feeling that we share some other common stuff (that choice of bike, you know...). 3dPDF File mailed (5.5Mb - hope that your mail server can get it).

Imagine doing some stuff with Quest3D (my favorite VR app these days)or SubDo. Problem is that exporting non rectilinear geometry (nurbs) to DirectX format doesn't work all the times.
mandaloreanmandalorean on January 9th, 2008 09:27 pm (UTC)
I got the file. Nice. :-)
I work in 3D Studio Max with a bit of Photoshop and Illustrator.
peter_fotiadis on January 10th, 2008 04:06 pm (UTC)
see this "project" as well (nothing to do with bikes, mind - but that Wally is an exceptional design anyway)

peter_fotiadis on January 25th, 2008 08:39 pm (UTC)
>> Ilmberger belly ban I cant fit the HPE downpipes<<<

Well my friend here's the good and bad news:

1. After talking to Angie and Julius Ilmberger > they confirm that their bellypan stuff DOES fit with HPE pipes. That's the good news.

2. Julius said that in this case the belly pan holes appear rather odd (since they are designed "near-by" the OEM pipes). Thus, he doesn't recommend mixing the belly pan with HPE (aesthetics) That's the bad news.

Other than that the full HPE system (WITH KAT - Earth matters) is ordered. Now, where's that SuzaKawaHondaBuza (or something similar) to tear it apart? He He